To The FemmeMobile! Away!











{July 19, 2010}   Lesbian and femme

I’m hoping this is going to be a short post, because god knows I need some downtime that doesn’t include writing.

I figure that hope pretty much guarantees this post will be five thousand words long. Ha ha ha. (As an aside, I’m writing a column now on, uh, writing, and it’s supposed to be 1000 words. Who knew 1000 words was SO SHORT? *shakes head*)

I made the comment in my last post that I am butchsexual, and I think it’s true. I’m really only attracted to butch women, and though I haven’t yet taken the step of saying I’m really not attracted to men, that’s probably true, too. (At least right now. *laughs*) Then Jolie took my term and expanded upon her own experience with it, and in writing that she said something I found very interesting. Actually, she said several somethings, but for now let’s start with this one. ;-D

I’m not a lesbian. I don’t embrace feminine beauty in all its forms, and all of that happy horseshit. I can appreciate a pretty girl, but it’s usually in more of the “I recognize something in her that reflects me” aspect. I’m more than happy to point out a hot little thing to my guy, but I’m not going to drool over her.

I read this, and I was like, “Yes! Oh, that’s it, exactly!” I have as much trouble identifying as lesbian as I do/did identifying as bi. It’s the same problem: it just doesn’t fit right. In a conversation with Nezu at one point, she suggested it was because being bi in our culture is really assumed as pansexual; you like everyone. Of course, that isn’t the case; it just means you like men and women in the same way others like one or the other. You don’t like ALL of them, you just like some of them from each category. And yet, it still didn’t fit right.

Lesbian is just like that for me. I really don’t feel like I can say I’m lesbian. Lesbian indicates I like women — but actually, I don’t. I like the gender butch, which appears on women, but it’s the gender, not the body, I’m really interested in. I think Megan Fox is the hottest thing on two legs (OH MY GOD, SHE IS SO HOT), but if I stop to think about kissing her or doing anything sexual and I’m like, “….ehhhh. Ew.” On the other hand, I can Google her all day.

…Megan Fox is totally like catnip for me. Excuse me. I’m having a really hard time regaining my train of thought, here. I need to go roll on her or something.

And yet, even as I say all this, while I would certainly love to run my hands over her yummy delightful sexy hot muscles, and I’d love to play in her wardrobe and get her make-up artist to make me glisten without working or looking like I’m actually sweating, I don’t really want to do anything sexual. For a long time, I thought maybe that’s just because I didn’t want to do anything sexual with female bodies, but that’s not true. Trust me. I like doing sexual things to Q’s female body, mwahahahahahahahahhahahahaha.

Ha.

Ha ha hee.

Mmmm. Damn, my train of though is just not running well today. Where was I? Butchsexual, not lesbian, right. Sometimes, I’ll be somewhere with Q where it’s a gay/lesbian thing rather than just her butch buddies, and I’m like, “…Wow. I feel like such an outsider here. I really don’t relate to these women at all.” Q and I went two-stepping, and I had a blast. I danced with a woman in a green dress and brown cowboy boots, all short blond hair and very good at dancing. Q pointed out several of her friends, some obviously butch and some not, and I found myself treating them like I would straight women, and being really unable to relate otherwise.

Even Q is more lesbian than I am (though I actually think of her as more gay — which doesn’t really make sense except in my head). She’ll look at a roomful of women and be able to pick out a dozen she finds attractive, and I’m lucky to see one. When we were at the rodeo, she kept pointing out hot women and my internal reaction was, “…Really? Why?” I hit the same thing going out with Nezu, and I find that I usually respond in the way I respond to someone like Megan Fox, in a “Yes, they’re hot!” but really I want to roll in them, not do them.

It’s funny; I almost feel like sexuality is as limited as gender, sometimes, but then I wonder if it’s mostly just me (and Jolie. *grins*). Other people don’t seem as bound to one gender as I am. Folks want to know what my sexuality is, and I’m never quite sure what to tell them. Bi, maybe. Lesbian, technically. Butchsexual, definitely. But I think Jolie hit the nail on the head: I’m not lesbian. I don’t love women in all their forms. I don’t even love women in some of their forms. I really only love them in one of their forms. If that’s the case — well, is that lesbian? Technically, if we’re going by biological sex. But not really.

Interesting.

J

(This, by the way, is only 900 words. It could have been a column. ;-D)

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Jolie says:

Fun AND thought-provoking. Damn you. Now I’m going to be up late juggling this around in my head for elaboration.

Wait. I can’t damn you for that. I was just bitching about being one of the last of my kind, and now it turns out that I’m not and… Well, yay! *lol*



JB says:

Aha hahahahaha, now I won’t be the only one awake. ;-D

*grins* Yeah, I know what you mean. 😉

J



[…] started this whole butchsexual thing, and then kept it going, which then kept me going… *sigh* It’s a vicious, femme-y […]



me says:

I never thought of “lesbian” as relating to attraction (sexual) to *all* types of women. For purely aesthetic reasons, I’ve always identified as dyke/butch dyke, but assumed that I’d simply chosen my preferred way of expressing “lesbian.” I think it is great that society and the subculture constantly evolve and reinvent the terms of reference – it’s a sort of semantic tower of babylon in a way. Always fascinating.



JB says:

I don’t think it means they like all women, but certainly a much broader spectrum of women than I like. *laughs* Heck, you could like two types of women and it would be twice as broad as my spectrum… 😉 I do love how the subculture is always changing, though. Wild to watch (and be part of!).

J



me says:

i guess i’m from a society where ‘lesbian’ is enough of an identifier that becomes necessary to use in order for us all to band together when possible to protest stuff like murders of lesbians in townships, curative rape etc etc … but nice to watch more privileged societies able to get more technical about it – a v good thing indeed.



me says:

I wonder if heterosexuals will start saying, “I’m not straight! I’m jocksexual. Geeksexual. Whateversexual.” Heh…awesome… :))



Momo says:

Dude this is a really interesting concept. I mean it makes sense that you have a “type”, albeit a very specific one, because most people do. But that you don’t feel totally comfortable identifying as a lesbian, or don’t feel comfortable in a crowd of gay gals is something to think about…
I might have to write a post about this.. or draw inspiration from this at least. I’ll reference 🙂
PS: I’m new here (to this blog, and the lesbian/whatever-you-want-to-call-it world) and really love your take on things!



JB says:

Thank you! Yeah, I’m still not sure why I’m not comfortable in a crowd of lesbians (though saying I’m not comfortable with them isn’t quite right — I just don’t identify with them). I think it has to do with the not-identifying-with thing, but heck, maybe I’m just not used to it. *laughs*

PS Thank you! And welcome to the blogosphere. I highly recommend the authors on the right. ;-D

J



G says:

So I commented on Jolie’s post first, but I have to come over and give you props for starting this shitstorm. Ha! No really, it’s so thought-provoking. Like me said (I could barely type that because it feels so grammatically incorrect), I assumed that dyke, femme, butch, etc, was all part of the overarching lesbian umbrella. But still, I’m not quite comfortable with identifying as a lesbian. I’ll definitely take on femmesexual, but that seems like it speaks more to my attractions and sex life, rather than who I am as a person. Like I told Jolie, I think I’ll stick with butch … for now.



JB says:

Ha! As anyone who’s known for a while will tell you, I’m always happy to cause a shitstorm. ;-D

It’s funny, until you said “but that seems like it speaks more to my attractions and sex life, rather than who I am as a person.” it didn’t occur to me that I was dividing things into lines: ___sexual is what I think of as exactly what you said — it speaks about my attractions. Femme speaks about who I am, but there are way too many femmes who like more than just butches to ever think it says anything about who I’m attracted to! I guess I think of it as a double: saying who you’re attracted to doesn’t say who you are, and saying who you are doesn’t say who you’re attracted to, so I need a label for each. ;-D

J



[…] 24, 2010 9:09 am I was responding to G‘s comment, talking about how I felt that who I’m attracted to isn’t the same as who I am, and I […]



[…] 24, 2010 3:59 pm The timing of this whole shitstorm (G‘s apt term in JB’s comments on FemmeMobile) on femme identity and butchsexuality has proven interesting to […]



The thing I want to know – honestly, I’m not just being bitchy – is why is lesbian such a bad thing? I’m a lesbian. I date butches – and generally the more butch of the butch. I don’t date femmes, I don’t find them attractive but … given that I am not attracted to men at all, I’m a lesbian.

When I came out (a ridiculously long time ago), femme was NOT the thing to do but, for whateve reason, instead of making me reject the identity of lesbian, it only pissed me off when someone would have something to say to me about how I couldn’t possibly be a lesbian. Of course I am. Butch or not – my lovers are all female.

Having said all that, I go back to my original question: for all of you: why is lesbian such a bad thing? I’m quite curious now.



JB says:

*laughs* I never said it was a bad thing — I just said it didn’t fit me, that I felt like an outsider, that it didn’t work for me. It does work for a lot of people, which is why I’m writing this. I find it frustrating that it doesn’t work for me when, from what I can tell, it should. Hence, blogging. 😉

For a long time I ID’ed as bi, mostly because that was the thing not to do. Now, though, I’m trying to figure out what I actually feel like. It’s just not lesbian. 😉

J



JB says:

Me – In my particular case, I don’t think it can be said that it’s because I’m from a privileged area. I’m from a little redneck town, where during the Prop 8 fiasco an 18-year-old girl was stabbed by a 40-year-old man for holding a no-on8 sign. 😦 The reason I moved was because I didn’t feel safe, and yet even the umbrella of ‘lesbian’ didn’t feel right to me, then. At that point, I identified as ‘bi’ because it was the closest I could find — and even that didn’t feel right. I just didn’t have the femme/butch language I have now, and I hadn’t had as much time to identify my own feelings and whatnot. I can band with ‘homosexual,’ and have, to help with rape, beatings, etc, but I still don’t feel lesbian. I just feel like a fake. *wry smile*

J



me says:

ah ok, fair enough – i guess from an african viewpoint, everyone in the usa seems privileged, even though that is clearly not the case – apologies for the assumption 🙂



Sora Ryu says:

I think you can still call yourself a lesbian. To me any girl who prefers sucking snatch over the other thing counts as gay. However I think within the umbrella term of lesbian there is a spectrum and you happen to fall on the femme-attracted-to-butches side. There’s also butches attracted to femmes, femmes attracted to femmes and butches attracted to butches and everything in between and I think they all fall under gay girl love. Does one have to put a specific label on it? Maybe. We all have our preferences but I think we’re all lesbian too.



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